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the official announcement of a carbon tax is highly symbolic. in fact, china already has many effective taxes in place. the measly price of CNY 10/t, I'm sure there are many sector specific policies that cause a much higher effective abatement cost than this, such as small plant closures program. also the renewable energy surcharge of CNY 0.008/kWh, is actually CNY 8/t effective carbon tax as well given about 1 t co2 emitted per MWh of electricity produced.
any western mainstream media will run this article?
Many thanks for the authors' arguments here. WSJ has been owned by the News Corporation and they tend to use very eye-catching headlines and "thrilling" articles. Again, the Chinese are not very good at marketing their own efforts in main stream western media, in which the politics are dominating. Before the Chinese media can have influential voice in the international arena, perhaps China Dialogue is the best stage to showcase different voices from China. Well done!
Just to point out a small typo appearing in the first paragraph: 匪人所思的言论 should be 匪夷所思的言论.
The earnestness and seriousness of the research effort put forth should not be questioned. However, the problem that Mr. Lee may have been picking up on is that EVERY decision made by the Chinese government, especially the ones that are made public, is political. If not, then why the need for such offices as the SCIO, the SCRTF, or the propaganda department? I don’t assume that these offices necessarily have anything to do with the environmental research or the details of the policy itself, but they absolutely have a say in what is said, when it is said, and how much is said about the policy (in fact any policy).
As for a carbon tax needing to “properly account for a country’s phase of development”, I find this statement utterly cliché. Exacty what does this mean? I don’t really know. Is it an excuse meant to give China more leeway in developing policy? If not, then please enlighten me. I live in Beijing and let me tell you, in many ways Beijing is a highly developed modern city.
And yet, I am constantly bombarded by just such an argument—because China is a developing country, so the problems and injustices that exist in Beijing (and around the country) can be somehow easier to accept or even ignore.
As for developing countries being bad at PR, unfortunately in China’s case, I don’t think China’s perception in the West has a lot to do with its stage of development. For example, Americans in general have a relatively positive view of India. The Western (especially American) perception is, whether one likes it or not, tainted more by perceived political system than economic development. My sneaking suspicion is that when the term “developing country” is used by the higher-ups in China, that it might be a codeword for “socialist country”, or perhaps “socialism with Chinese characteristics”. I implore someone to please explain to me exactly what socialism with Chinese characteristics is.
As for notions of conspiracy theory, again, I don’t think it can be denied that certain high-ups have certain agendas and certain reasons for portraying events in certain ways in China.
If the US government was to require that a news source do this or that, this would be considered a “government conspiracy”. This happens every day in China. This kind of government activity is frowned upon in the West. But it is relatively acceptable in China. Is a conspiracy only a conspiracy if people consider it a conspiracy?
Anyways, if the Chinese policy improves the environment, then good for China and good for the world. But politics simply cannot be removed from the equation. Especially in today’s hyper-realist international arena, political advantage is always a concern. Until the day that the zero-sum game is rejected and the possibility of mutual prosperity is recognized, it will continue to be a concern.
Misinformation on China dampens action in developed countries
Climate mitigation policies in developed countries are strongly influenced by what China does. Here in Australia, many labour under the misapprehension that Australia is 'going it alone' or 'moving first' be implementing a carbon tax and that we are putting ourselves at a disadvantage. A common phrase is 'China is building this many coal fired power plants per day, why should we limit our own emissions, when Australia's overall contribution to climate change is so small?'
People like John Lee and the Australian conservative opposition have a lot to answer for in spreading deliberate misinformation on China's efforts. The situation is complicated and China is by no means a climate warrior internationally (China's recent ban on its airlines opting into the EU air-travel carbon tax is a case in point). But China is not exactly dragging its feet. It is taking truly bold action on climate change domestically. The more people realise this, the better the odds for stronger action in developed countries.
Right Wing Mainstream Media is Required to Lie About China's Environmental Policies
When you cannot explain the clear and painful facts that a well regulated, centrally controlled economy performs over the long and short terms far better than chaotic, irrational, "law of the jungle" economic systems, you have to, to be very clear, simply lie.
It is obvious that the Chinese government understands the value of moving forward with haste to develop low carbon, low pollution forms of energy. This transition will be expensive in the short term, but will reap huge benefits for China in the medium to long term.
China uses scientific analysis to decide key economic decisions as opposed to utterly corrupted politicians financed by big business, for whom the status quo is very profitable. Very powerful computers and information systems ensure that the scientific approach will ensure increasingly efficient, near optimum, economic decision making in well-managed economic systems, like China's.
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roro
2012年1月27日19:25
27 Jan 2012 19:25
0 Likes
税已经有了...
官方宣布开征碳税具有很高的象征含义。事实上,中国已设有很多税项。只是微不足道的每吨10元,我肯定有很多特定领域政策所规定的有效减排费用要比这要高得多,例如小型工厂关闭计划。而且根据每兆瓦的发电量排放约1吨二氧化碳,可再生能源附加费为每千瓦0.008元,实际上也相当于每吨碳排放征收8元的税。
already have a tax...
the official announcement of a carbon tax is highly symbolic. in fact, china already has many effective taxes in place. the measly price of CNY 10/t, I'm sure there are many sector specific policies that cause a much higher effective abatement cost than this, such as small plant closures program. also the renewable energy surcharge of CNY 0.008/kWh, is actually CNY 8/t effective carbon tax as well given about 1 t co2 emitted per MWh of electricity produced.
cdhelennh
2012年1月29日15:25
29 Jan 2012 15:25
0 Likes
哪个西方主流媒体会刊登这篇文章?
非常感谢作者的论点。华尔街日报归新闻集团所有,他们刊登的文章通常有吸引眼球的标题,令人“震惊”的内容。而中国人并不擅长在政治主导的西方主流媒体上营销自己的工作和努力。在中国媒体在世界舞台上取得影响性话语权之前,中外对话或许是展示来自中国的不同声音的最好平台。做得好!
第一段有一个小错误,“匪人所思的言论”应该是“匪夷所思的言论”。
any western mainstream media will run this article?
Many thanks for the authors' arguments here. WSJ has been owned by the News Corporation and they tend to use very eye-catching headlines and "thrilling" articles. Again, the Chinese are not very good at marketing their own efforts in main stream western media, in which the politics are dominating. Before the Chinese media can have influential voice in the international arena, perhaps China Dialogue is the best stage to showcase different voices from China. Well done!
Just to point out a small typo appearing in the first paragraph: 匪人所思的言论 should be 匪夷所思的言论.
fei.wang
2012年1月30日11:5
30 Jan 2012 11:05
0 Likes
谢谢cdhelennh
谢谢cdhelennh的留言并帮助我们指出一个小的文字错误。我们已经修改。希望阅读到您更多的精彩发言。
Thanks cdhelennh
Thanks cdhelennh for your comment and spotting an error. We've change it! Look forward to reading more comments from you.
labfat
2012年1月31日16:12
31 Jan 2012 16:12
0 Likes
小错误
右侧作者栏, 是林明彻, 不是杨明彻
Mistake
The author column on the right should be Lin Mingche, not Yand Mingche.
fei.wang
2012年2月1日9:45
01 Feb 2012 09:45
0 Likes
谢谢指出错误。已更正。
谢谢您细心指出错误。已改正。敬请关注其它文章。
Thanks for pointing out the mistake.
We've corrected the typo. Thanks.
sgold87
2012年2月3日5:9
03 Feb 2012 05:09
0 Likes
观点
做研究工作的认真和严谨是不应该被质疑的。然而,李先生一直指出的问题是中国政府作出的每一个决定,特别是那些向公众发布的决定,是政治化的。如果不是,那为什么有需要像国务院新闻办公室、SCRTF,或者是宣传部这样的办公机构?我不是假设这些办公室就和环境研究或者是政策本身的细节有任何关系,但是他们绝对在关于政策(事实上任何政策)什么被提及,什么时候被提及,以及多少被提及中有发言权。至于像碳税需要“合理地代表一个国家的发展阶段”,我觉得这个声明很老套。这到底是什么意思?我真的不明白。是要给中国更多发展政策空间的借口吗?如果不是,请帮助我理解。我生活在北京,让我来告诉你,在很多方面,北京是一个高度发展的现代都市。
Perception
The earnestness and seriousness of the research effort put forth should not be questioned. However, the problem that Mr. Lee may have been picking up on is that EVERY decision made by the Chinese government, especially the ones that are made public, is political. If not, then why the need for such offices as the SCIO, the SCRTF, or the propaganda department? I don’t assume that these offices necessarily have anything to do with the environmental research or the details of the policy itself, but they absolutely have a say in what is said, when it is said, and how much is said about the policy (in fact any policy).
As for a carbon tax needing to “properly account for a country’s phase of development”, I find this statement utterly cliché. Exacty what does this mean? I don’t really know. Is it an excuse meant to give China more leeway in developing policy? If not, then please enlighten me. I live in Beijing and let me tell you, in many ways Beijing is a highly developed modern city.
sgold87
2012年2月3日5:12
03 Feb 2012 05:12
0 Likes
看法2
然而,我不断地被这么一类说法连番轰炸:由于中国是一个发展中国家,因此所有在北京(或者全国各地)存在的问题和不公,都是可以被接受甚至无视的。
但不幸的是,至于发展中国家公关能力较差这个问题,我认为就中国来讲,西方对于中国的看法与其发展阶段有太大关系。例如,大体来说美国人对印度就有一个相对正面的看法。不管你承不承认,西方(尤其是美国)对其他国家的看法总会是受到政治制度,而并非经济发展因素所影响。我私以为,当中国政府高层使用“发展中国家”这个字眼的时候,他们可能只想隐晦地表达“社会主义国家”或者“具有中国特色的社会主义”罢了。我恳请各位帮我解释一下到底什么叫具有中国特色社会主义。
而有关阴谋论的问题,我认为在描绘中国的一些事件上面,确实有一些高层官员有他们自己的一些政治计划和原因,从而控制对事件的描述,这个事实是不容质疑的。
Perception 2
And yet, I am constantly bombarded by just such an argument—because China is a developing country, so the problems and injustices that exist in Beijing (and around the country) can be somehow easier to accept or even ignore.
As for developing countries being bad at PR, unfortunately in China’s case, I don’t think China’s perception in the West has a lot to do with its stage of development. For example, Americans in general have a relatively positive view of India. The Western (especially American) perception is, whether one likes it or not, tainted more by perceived political system than economic development. My sneaking suspicion is that when the term “developing country” is used by the higher-ups in China, that it might be a codeword for “socialist country”, or perhaps “socialism with Chinese characteristics”. I implore someone to please explain to me exactly what socialism with Chinese characteristics is.
As for notions of conspiracy theory, again, I don’t think it can be denied that certain high-ups have certain agendas and certain reasons for portraying events in certain ways in China.
sgold87
2012年2月3日5:13
03 Feb 2012 05:13
0 Likes
看法3
如果美国政府要求新闻媒体做这做那,那将被视为“政府阴谋”。这种事在中国每天都发生。政府的这种行为在西方是受鄙视的。在中国却是相对可接受的。难道只有人们认为这是阴谋的时候,它才是阴谋?
不管怎么说,如果中国的政策能够改善环境,对于中国还是世界来说都有好处。但是政治因素不能被忽视。尤其是在如今超现实主义的国际舞台上,政治优势始终是一个焦点。除非有一天零和博弈被摒弃,共同繁荣才可能实现,在此之前它仍将是一个问题。
Perception 3
If the US government was to require that a news source do this or that, this would be considered a “government conspiracy”. This happens every day in China. This kind of government activity is frowned upon in the West. But it is relatively acceptable in China. Is a conspiracy only a conspiracy if people consider it a conspiracy?
Anyways, if the Chinese policy improves the environment, then good for China and good for the world. But politics simply cannot be removed from the equation. Especially in today’s hyper-realist international arena, political advantage is always a concern. Until the day that the zero-sum game is rejected and the possibility of mutual prosperity is recognized, it will continue to be a concern.
o.boyd
2012年2月7日0:22
07 Feb 2012 00:22
0 Likes
对中国的错误报道信息挫伤发达国家的行动
中国在气候变化方面的行动,对发达国家的减缓气候变化政策有很大的影响。澳大利亚的许多劳工对此存在误解,认为澳大利亚在实施碳排放税的问题上是在“单干”或“首当其冲”,而且这正把我们自己置于不利地位之中。大家常说:“中国每天建造这么多煤炭发电厂,而澳大利亚对气候变化的整体影响却这么微弱,那为什么我们还要限制自己的排放量?”
像约翰·李以及澳大利亚保守派反对党的一些人应为蓄意扭曲中国的行为负责。现在的形势十分复杂,中国虽然绝对不是什么国际世界的气候卫士(中国民航局日前禁止境内各航空公司参与欧盟排放交易体就是一个很好的例子),但中国也并不是在原地踏步,拖拖拉拉,事实上它对于改善环境所实行的改革对于其国内来说是很大刀阔斧的。如果有越来越多的人认识到这一点,可能发达国家将会推行更加有力的举措。
Misinformation on China dampens action in developed countries
Climate mitigation policies in developed countries are strongly influenced by what China does. Here in Australia, many labour under the misapprehension that Australia is 'going it alone' or 'moving first' be implementing a carbon tax and that we are putting ourselves at a disadvantage. A common phrase is 'China is building this many coal fired power plants per day, why should we limit our own emissions, when Australia's overall contribution to climate change is so small?'
People like John Lee and the Australian conservative opposition have a lot to answer for in spreading deliberate misinformation on China's efforts. The situation is complicated and China is by no means a climate warrior internationally (China's recent ban on its airlines opting into the EU air-travel carbon tax is a case in point). But China is not exactly dragging its feet. It is taking truly bold action on climate change domestically. The more people realise this, the better the odds for stronger action in developed countries.
tdeanxx
2012年2月9日21:49
09 Feb 2012 21:49
0 Likes
右翼主流媒体在对中国环境政策的报道中撒谎也是迫不得已
无论从短期还是长期来看,中央集权经济都比混乱、不合理的“弱肉强食”型经济体系表现更为出色。如果你无法对这样一个明确却令人痛苦的事实做出解释,你能做的也很明确 --- 撒谎即可。
显然,中国政府已经意识到发展低碳、低污染能源形式的紧迫性和价值。这种转变在短期之内会相当昂贵,但从在中长期来看它能令中国受益颇多。
中国目前采用科学的分析方法做重要的经济决策,这一点与腐败政治家们的利益背道相驰。他们从大买卖中获利,只有现状才是有利可图的。只有功能强大的计算机和信息系统,才能够确保在运转良好的经济制度中,通过科学的方法作出最高效、最合理的决策。就像中国正在做的一样。
Right Wing Mainstream Media is Required to Lie About China's Environmental Policies
When you cannot explain the clear and painful facts that a well regulated, centrally controlled economy performs over the long and short terms far better than chaotic, irrational, "law of the jungle" economic systems, you have to, to be very clear, simply lie.
It is obvious that the Chinese government understands the value of moving forward with haste to develop low carbon, low pollution forms of energy. This transition will be expensive in the short term, but will reap huge benefits for China in the medium to long term.
China uses scientific analysis to decide key economic decisions as opposed to utterly corrupted politicians financed by big business, for whom the status quo is very profitable. Very powerful computers and information systems ensure that the scientific approach will ensure increasingly efficient, near optimum, economic decision making in well-managed economic systems, like China's.