linden.ellis Linden Ellis 加入本网站时间 Member Since 15 July 2009 Linden.Ellis's 评论 comments 环境比中国更大 中外对话网站上的大多读者认同中国存在环境问题，从南到北的中国土地上及外国的虚拟水问题正是其中之一。我认为这样一个双语的平台很有意义，让我们分享观点，也了解到，受环境问题困扰、寻求解决方案的国家不止中国一个。英国的案例对于中国的读者具有参考价值，帮助他们思考如何处理国内的类似问题，或者寻求国际合作。这个网站是讨论环境问题的绝佳平台，这么说的原因是一些事件只可能在中国发生。——Paulwenman 董鹤冰译 The environment is bigger than China Paulwenman - Most readers of this site recognize that China has environmental issues and that "virtual water", both north to south in China and beyond China's borders, is one of them. I think it is productive to share on a bilingual forum that China is not alone in experiencing these issues, or in searching for solutions. How the UK deals with this issue might be relevant to Chinese readers thinking about how to deal with it at home, or might help them think of international partners to work with. I think this is the perfect place for that discussion, especially since the story is probably not available in Chinese anywhere else. 美国媒体的回应 yfl-你的评论我理解。这儿是我-一个美国人的简短回应。在国际专业领域内，我工作的关注中国的企业中，找不出一个人支持美国钢铁工人的请愿的。他们都觉得这样的抗议是无稽之谈，不会被提交的世贸组织。有些人确信一场贸易战不可避免。很多主流媒体报道了中国的回应，说调查是不负责任的。 差不多所有主要论坛的评论都是反对美国工会的要求的。 其他国家政府迫使美国关注清洁能源。说实话，我喜欢这个。http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2010/10/15/energy-a-clean-tech-trade-war-begins-to-heat-up-with-china/#ixzz149g9cApl 又是一个美国把自己制造出来的问题推卸到别人身上的例子。http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/677-e2-wire/124471-white-house-launches-probe-of-chinas-green-trade-practices 中国补贴那些把太阳能设备安装在中国国内的太阳能制造商的做法没有错；而当这些受补贴的中国的太阳能制造商把95%的产品出口时，问题就来了。 http://www.huffingtonpost.com 董鹤冰译 American media response yfl--Your comment is well taken. As an American, here is a short response. Within the professional circle on international, China-focused enterprises that I work in, I couldn't find a single person who supported the petition. They all think it is nonsense and will not be brought to WTO. Others are convinced that trade war is inevitable. There have been a lot of reports in mainstream media about China's response calling the investigation irresponsible. Almost all comments on major forums are against the petition: The US attention being forced on to clean energy practices by another government. Frankly, I like this. http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2010/10/15/energy-a-clean-tech-trade-war-begins-to-heat-up-with-china/#ixzz149g9cApl Here is the US again looking for someone else to blame for problems of their own creation. http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/677-e2-wire/124471-white-house-launches-probe-of-chinas-green-trade-practices There's nothing wrong with China subsidizing it's solar manufacturers for solar products installed within China; the problem occurs when a subsidized Chinese solar company is exporting up to 95% of its product. http://www.huffingtonpost.com 回复“唉” aijalk-谢谢你对“月光族”的解释。我知道这个目前不太明确。那些过着“月光”生活的美国人通常生活标准很高，这绝对是事实，然而这在政治上也反映出社会的不安定和个人的不安全感。暂不考虑一些人把自己定义成“月光族”是否由于对某人“需要”什么的傲慢认知——我认为是这样——或者由于真实的贫困，“月光”的生活方式无论对个人还是政府都是一股强大的推力。 re "sigh" aijalk - Thank you so much for clarifying the "paycheck-to-paycheck" statement; I realize now that it is unclear. Although it is true in an absolute sense that those American's living paycheck-to-paycheck often have very high standards of living, it is politically very significant as an indicator of social instability and personal insecurity. Irrespective of whether someone defines themselves as living paycheck-to-paycheck because of bloated perceptions of what someone "needs"--which I think it is--or because of real poverty, it is a powerful motivating force both for the individual and the government. 不关你事？ 回复gaidee:我认为美国能源专家了解中国的情况，这是对你我都有关的事。虽然我不知道是和你谈话的是哪位专家，我认识一些专家，他们很了解中国的情况，非常关注和期待美中两国的合作。 我在加州工作，我认为江苏那里发生着许多重大的事件，他们在绿色能源项目投入了大量资金。 开始写这篇文章时我对当前的情况感到悲观，尤其是对加州与中国的合作。但我见到中国和加州两方面都有人很热衷于清洁科技的合作，我不禁想到他们的努力能够带动其他人效仿。虽然当前在谅解备忘录下取得的成绩不多，但谅解备忘录存在的事实就证实了人们正在做出努力。 董鹤冰译 Not your business? gaidee - I should think it would be very much your business (and ours) to see that American energy experts understand China's situation. And while I don't know which expert you were talking to, I know several who are very conscious of China's situation and care a lot to see constructive collaboration occur. My understanding, from working here in California, is that a lot of great things have happened in Jiangsu, and that they have a fair amount of capital to put into these green energy projects. I started writing this piece feeling quite pessimistic about the situation, particularly of CA-China cooperation, but I've met so many people on both sides who are so passionate about making clean tech cooperation work, I can't help but think that they will inspire others to follow. While little seems to be achieved under most MOUs, the fact that they exist indicate that people are trying. 怀疑不（总）是无知 我大体同意这里的观点。 我当然不认为有人推崇非逻辑非科学地角度去探讨气候变化。 重要是要知道，许多倡导者一直对同样的人重复相同的信息；在此同时，忽视了其他人或没能说服其他人。 要想使理智的政府采取行动，就必须取得更多的人的支持，在美国尤其需要如此。 我们有机会尝试新的方法，取得更好的成果。堪萨斯州的例子中，他们调查人们都信任谁，在这个例子中，是教堂。于是他们把教士作为传递气候变化信息的重点对象。 这种做法是很新奇的。 倡导者需要突破自身去思考， 更多地去了解他们针对的对象——气候怀疑论者——以及如何说服他们，而不是凭空认为他们的怀疑是由于完全的无知。 事实上，这样的凭空认为，就使得人们对倡导者的信息更加抗拒。 董鹤冰译 skepticism is not (always) ignorance I agree basically with everything that was said here. I certainly don't think anyone is advocating to be rid of logical and scientific outreach of climate change. Instead, it is important to remember that a lot of campaigns reiterate the same information to the same people, while ignoring or simply failing to sway the others. In order for rational governments to take action, more people must support action--especially in the US. The point is that there is opportunity to try new methods to achieve greater results. One thing the Kansas example included was research on who people trust--in this case the church--and targeting ministers with the climate message. This is surprisingly novel. Campaigners need to think outside of themselves and learn more about their target audience--climate skeptics--and how to engage them, rather than assuming their skepticism is purely ignorance. In fact, such an assumption can make people particularly resistant to your message.